The difference is that we are in communion with the visible Church and they are not. So there just would have been, at the Council, some kind of massive protest if it did anything fundamentally wrong. It’s that dangerous. So originally, presumably, Jesus said the liturgy for the first time in Aramaic, at the last supper. I don’t think they are entirely on the wrong track, but I believe there are decent rebuttals to their answers. There is not, there never has been, and there never can be, any organized body not in communion with the Roman Pontiff of which that statement can be made. One seminary professor described the book as a “North Star” to help guide Catholics through the present darkness in the Church. So it’s hard to say “we’re in a great apostasy” or “THE Great Apostasy” when the Church is bigger than ever. I like Catholic Answers. Our Lord did not found a sect but the Catholic, that is, the universal Church. This is really wrong here!” And that didn’t happen. What sedevacantists object to is a Mass being offered “Una Cum” or in union with a Vatican II pope and the local bishop who do not cherish the Catholic and Apostolic Faith as do ‘all orthodox believers and professors of the Catholic and Apostolic Faith,’ … We have chosen, deliberately, not to respond to each individual example, or argument, put forward by sedevacantists because, like quoting individual verses of Scripture, context is required to interpret them correctly. Anything else is a betrayal.”. Have there been individual people who are apostates in our age? But the Church is still the Church. Catholic Resistance. sedevacantism.com sedevacantism.org sedeprivationism.com sedeprivationism.org thechurchofjesuschristdivinephysician.com thechurchofjesuschristdivinephysician.org Sedevacantist claims and arguments require context to be refuted. There’s not going to be a sudden apostasy with nobody noticing. You are not signed in as a Premium user; Premium users get 10% discount in the store! Most Holy Family Monastery, and other sedevacantist sites, would probably judge Church Militant productions to be "spiritual pornography" for the same reasons we use to warn others about them. So in order to be an apostate, you have to say “I was a Christian and I’m not anymore.”. Jesus was no less God when He was beaten, bruised and crucified. Coache,[1] make it a matter of faith, and refuse to assist at Masses where the priest prays for the pope. 10). That is all we set out to demonstrate. Answer: Sedevacantism is the belief that the Roman Catholic Church currently lacks a valid Pope. It is incompatible with the profession of Catholicism to posit any form of the "true Church" separated from the Catholic hierarchy in communion with the Roman Pontiff. The Pope may have been elected and accepted by cardinals yet, due to heretical views, is not “truly” the head of the earthly church. Jimmy Akin explains why the reasons given by sedevacantists for their position are faulty and contrary to the promises of Christ. So we just don’t see the conditions necessary for The Great Apostasy. And so you have elements of tradition that are in continuity with the past, but you also have developments that occur within that tradition. Sedevacantism is the position, held by a minority of traditionalist Catholics, that the alleged present occupant of the Holy See is not truly pope due to the mainstream church's espousal of the heresy of modernism and that, for lack of a valid pope, the see has been … The Vatican II antipopes are without doubt real heretics. You have the words of everlasting life!". In other words, by refusing to accept the authority of the current Pope or his recent predecessors, a Catholic who’s a sedevacantist willfully puts himself into a state of schism. Well, whatever else that means, it means there’s not going to be a sudden apostasy of the bishops who were guided by the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus, and by Jesus himself. Is sedevacantism Catholic? Vatican II … And I totally understand when you said that since I’m going through the education of the Catholic Church, and even besides going through RCIA I’ve been doing a lot of my own research on the Catholic Church, which is again why I want to join the Catholic Church, I definitely found the truth in it. I mean, how do you get—maybe you get some of the bishops to have a wrong-headed notion about something, maybe even got a significant number of them to have a wrong-headed notion about something— but some of them are gonna be guided enough by the Holy Spirit that they say “Wait a minute! I have no doubt that the bishops are, as a college, successors of the apostles. So a first thought I’d have is: is this the right time in your journey to be trying to process this kind of information? It’s a huge book (700+ pages!) Question: "What is sedevacantism?" This is seen as incompatible with the sedevacantist claim that the true nature of the Catholic Church has been hidden from the world for half a century. The Catholic response is that to believe this is to believe that Our Lord's promise to be with His Church until the end of time and protect Her from conquest by the Gates of Hell was a lie. And I don’t see the sedevacantists saying the gates of Hell have prevailed. That so many good and intelligent Catholics have been seduced by sedevacantist arguments is proof that one should avoid exploring and engaging sedevacantist claims as the occasions of sin that they are. Enjoying this content? The 1870 Dogmatic Constitution Pastor Aeternus of the First Vatican Councilreaffirmed that "it has always been necessary f… So in your opinion, Jimmy, you would say that there are—this is just a clarification for me personally— you would say that there definitely are not any anti-popes, and all of the bishops still have their full succession from the original Church from the beginning, correct? Sedevacantism is the claim, espoused by certain extreme traditionalist Catholics, that there is currently no valid pope because of a great apostasy by either the pope or the whole Church. One of the things that Christ promised is that he would be with his church till the end of time. Most people are familiar with the word "pornography" and its attendant dangers. It talks about how the Church will almost pass out of existence, but Christ will return to save it at the last moment. Sedevacantism comes from the Latin sede vacante, which means "seat vacant. We live and move and have our being in a wounded Mystical Body of Christ. Grace is produced in the souls of the faithful by exterior means consisting of sacraments administered with special rites, and celebrated by ministers specifically chosen for this function. In his encyclical Satis cognitum, 1896, Pope Leo XIII noted the importance of the sacraments among the visible bonds uniting the members of the Mystical Body. Jimmy: Sure. Freemason and Communist infiltrators are often seen as the reason these Popes got elected. I don’t see the “gates of Hell” argument making a lot of sense here. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. And you do not have bishops, you don’t have the the pope and the body of bishops saying “Guess what, you know, we used to be Christian, but we’re not anymore.” Therefore, whatever criticisms you have of the pope and the bishops, they have not apostatized. The authors show how sedevacantism is FALSE. They insist frequently—and frankly—on an uncharitable reading of every development, and portray it as if it was an unacceptable development, and they have essentially fossilized a certain stage of development in the history of the Church and said “Any departure from that is an apostasy.” And that’s just a misrepresentation, both of the concept of apostasy and of the way tradition works. We encourage you to read them slowly and carefully, and then pray that God will renew and encourage your faith in His Church: Michael Davies wrote a book, I Am With You Always: The Divine Constitution and Indefectibility of the Catholic Church, that is a powerful antidote to the temptation to give up on the Church. Join us LIVE for Post-Election Special tonight at 6:30 PM ET. It had already been a tradition, but now it was an infallibly defined one. And in 381, the divinity of the Holy Spirit was infallibly defined. Book Tim Now! Part 1 (of 4) Our priest, at that time, had circulated a talk given by a traditionalist priest which stated that we, as Catholics, do not have the right to judge the pope. Apostasy is defined as—and you can read this in the Code of Canon Law, including the 1917 Code of Canon Law, if I recall correctly, it’s certainly in the 83 Code and it’s in the Catechism—apostasy is defined as the total repudiation of the Christian faith. Donate The sedevacantists may have many legitimate criticisms of the Church, but we return to the words of St. Peter: "Lord, to whom shall we go? "It is the position held by a small portion of traditional Catholics who claim that the Papal Seat, the Holy See, has been vacant since around 1960. However, just as the authority of the Apostles was not compromised by the presence of Judas in their midst, the wounded Body of Christ we experience does not make it other than what it is: the Body of Christ. What is most difficult when engaging sedevacantist arguments, and dangerous for the unprepared, is that, as with Protestantism, there is much that is true in sedevacantist presentations. For example, many adhere to the belief that all Popes since Pope Pius XII are "anti-Popes," or that Pope Gregory XVII was a true but suppressed Pope, and that now we have no true Pope. Some of the specific positions advocated by various groups of sedevacantists might strike ordinary Catholics as funny, but schism is no laughing matter. To suspend one’s judgment in the interest of being open-minded and fair is to open a door to God’s enemy, who loves nothing more than to separate men from the Truth. According to standard Catholic doctrine, the Catholic Church is a visible identifiable body that is literally catholic, in the sense of universal ("for all people"). We cannot encourage anyone more strongly to give up speculation about "true Popes" and "anti-Popes" and imprudent dependence on "private revelations" that should never be understood or interpreted apart from the authority and Magisterium of the Church. And if Vatican II had done something that fundamentally betrayed the faith, then number one, the gates of hell would have prevailed against the Church, which Jesus said wouldn’t happen, and number two, there would have been an outcry from the bishops! You have not committed apostasy. And soon, within a couple of centuries, mass was being said in Latin. Examples of this woundedness are legion. There have been many Popes whose personal lives would give reason to question whether they even believed the Catholic Faith. But very quickly, certainly by Saint Paul’s time, they started saying Mass in Greek. Answers to the Most Common Objections Against Sedevacantism. So even if you want to say, “Well, I think they could have done better, or think they could have phrased this differently,” fine. Sedevacantism. Vatican to Offer Abortion-Tainted Vaccine, Progressive ‘Catholic’ Media Goes Belly-Up, Post-Election Special: Courts Ignoring Evidence, I Am With You Always: The Divine Constitution and Indefectibility of the Catholic Church. As more and more Catholics discover that their Church has been caught contradicting itself in matters that should have qualified under its umbrellas of Infallibility and Indefectibility The Sedevacantist Delusion introduces an explanation that requires readers to reconsider the historical origins of its claims. I have the first edition of the book and plan on getting the new edition. However, you brought up a partial solution to your problem with Francis and his posse. Father Z is not a Sedevacantist in the least, unless one’s definition of Sedevacantism is anyone who criticizes or disagrees with the Pope on some issues (in which case 90% of Catholics, and great Saints like St Peter Damian and St Catherine of Siena would qualify as “Sedevacantists” … And that’s something the Catholic Church accepts and recognizes, and it’s mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Library of Online Resources. Remember that Sedevacantism, the position that there has been no (known) true Pope of the Catholic Church since the death of Pius XII in 1958, and that the current Vatican establishment is not the Catholic Church, is entirely safe theologically. So the sedevacantist teaches that John Paul II was an impostor and the same for Benedict XVI. In fact, I had two anti-popes on Facebook try to become my Facebook friends a while back, but I concluded that they just wanted to be Facebook friends so they could promote their anti-papacies, and I didn’t friend them. There is, without question, a crisis in the Church today. Sedevacantism is the claim, espoused by certain extreme traditionalist Catholics, that there is currently no valid pope because of a great apostasy by either the pope or the whole Church. Catholic ministers may give the sacraments of Eucharist, Penance, and Anointing of the Sick to other Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church…” Antipope John Paul II, Catechism of the Catholic Church (# 521): “By his Incarnation, he, the Son of … , he ’ s a huge sedevacantist catholic answers ( 700+ pages! effects of pornography, '' the... He would be with his Church till the end of time while does. With a lot of sense here the gates of Hell would not against! 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